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Crooked Flight

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(@philmdeanaol-com)
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Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 4
Topic starter  

Hi.  I purchased 97234 in November and I have put about 75 hours on it since that time.  I've never owned a Stinson before.  This airplane is a beautiful restoration completed in 2015.  It's great to look at and it flies crooked as shit!  I took it to my local shop to be re-rigged.  Apparently, they only turned the left aft lift strut fork three times.  I wanted it completely rigged.

Personally, I believe the notion of slotted wings and a high-wing airplane with so much dihedral was an aerodynamic marketing failure.  A single engine Cessna doesn't have that much dihedral and no one has produced wings with slots since.  In fact, Stinson apparently had roughly 150 airplanes left to sell when Piper bought them out and ended the line.

So, before I take it to a different shop to be fully rigged, not adjusted, and find out it still flies crooked, does anyone else have a crooked-flying -1?  Are they all screwy?  I'll be more specific about it's flight characteristics if anybody needs or wants to know. 

Thanks!

 

Phil Dean


   
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Reputable Member
Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 300
 

Phil, I would get it to a Stinson mechanic, someone who is very familiar with Stinsons; not just your local FBO shop.  Did they have the General Service Manual when they worked on the airplane?  If you're anywhere near the East Coast Billy Carter is in North Carolina--he could rig your controls.  Larry Wheelock is in Indiana in the summertime and deep south Texas in the winter--I think he checks this forum and could help you out.  


   
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Jason Tepool
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Joined: 12 years ago
Posts: 169
 

They are not screwy at all.  The service manual calls out the rigging, but I agree with Dennis, fly it crooked to a Stinson experienced mechanic to get it rigged.  You will be so pleased with how well it flies once rigged properly.

Jason "Tadpole" Tepool
N247C 108-2 w/220hp


   
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(@philmdeanaol-com)
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Topic starter  

Thanks, Jason!  I spoke to an IA on another airport who operates a very small shop and predominately works on vintage rag wings and acro birds.  He's in his '70's, so I hope he can get me scheduled sooner than later.  

I have two copies of the GSM, but I haven't found a section on rigging.  So, I guess I have to go into each component, fuselage, wing, flight control and weed out the rigging procedure.  The J-3 and J-5 manuals, as small as they are, have a dedicated section devoted to rigging.

I'm glad to hear there's a solution!  I look forward to flying it when it flies straight!

Thanks again for the response!

Phil


   
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Jason Tepool
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Joined: 12 years ago
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There's info in the GSM under each area for installations, and then right in the beginning of Chapter IV, the flight control cable tensions are listed, followed on the  next page by the surface travel limits, then adjustments for each surface in the following pages.

Jason "Tadpole" Tepool
N247C 108-2 w/220hp


   
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(@philmdeanaol-com)
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Joined: 3 years ago
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Topic starter  

Thanks!  I'll have it all highlighted for the IA when I take it in!


   
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Personally, I believe the notion of slotted wings and a high-wing airplane with so much dihedral was an aerodynamic marketing failure.  A single engine Cessna doesn't have that much dihedral and no one has produced wings with slots since.”

The 108 IMHO, has superior flying characteristics when compared to a Cessna 172 and I have about 250 hours in the venerable 172. The 108 is noticeably more stable and comfortable in flight and has better stall characteristics to boot. I’d guess that the reason you don’t see modern slotted wings in GA is cost. People still install them on top competition STOL aircraft today.

As for marketing, It was a popular aircraft at the time, comprising 47% of four place GA unit sales. It’s failure was pretty much inevitable due to the recession and the fact that Stinson was a relatively small player, which, I think was only producing the 108 at the time.

 

I’m sure you will love it once the rigging issues are worked out.

 

http://www.stinsonflyer.com/avtextsf/stinsonSales1947.pdf

Marcus Sabathil: Owner of Skookumchuck Voyageur 108


   
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@philmdeanaol-com

 


   
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lawheelock
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Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 774
 
Posted by: @poconojohn

@philmdeanaol-com

 

This .pdf document is an excellent reference for proper rigging of the wings on any 108 Stinson.

I was in attendance of the 1997 Stinson Reunion at Stinson Field in San Antonio and listened to Chuck's original presentation and probably kept a copy of this document, but have not seen it for some time so downloaded and printed this and will keep it with my Stinson GSM.

I did buy a Smart Level tool and have it.

 

Larry Wheelock, 9/9/2020 and still in Texas at XS56

 

 

Larry Wheelock, A&P/IAStinson 108 N584LW 180 LycTexas in Winter; Indiana in Summer


   
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(@carl)
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Joined: 5 years ago
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When I purchased 53K in '84 she flew pretty crooked. The left wing was "heavy" and required a considerable amount of right good during level flight. The former owner wasn't much help although he had owned since '54. Took it to the repair facility on the field and the mechanic turned the left trailing strut turnbuckle 1/2 turn and told me to try it. I couldn't tell any difference. So I tried two turns on the left and two on the right in the opposite direction. That made a lot difference. I turned both one more turn and yoke was straight and she flies wings level hands off with some right rudder trim. I suspect that en tweaked in the past. The logbooks show three major repairs where the left landing gear had been repaired twice and the right one had also been fixed.

Carl


   
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Charles L Gruby Gruby
(@charlesgruby)
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Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 72
 

@lawheelock. Larry, I thought I remembered you at that Flyin back in '97. That was a real blast Marcia Gietz (now Marcia Mason) and I did all the leg work to put that thing on. I don't know how many trips I made back and forth from Hoston to San Antonio to get the field ready for over 50 Stinson's from all over the country. We centered the Flyin around a continuous string of forums from all sorts of experts on these airplanes. It was a great time. I would like to do it again but don't know if I have the zeal to pull it off.

You know I may have a copy of that presentation around some where. I'll scratch around and see if I do.

Chuck Gruby
Stinson 108-2 NC9502K
Petal, MS


   
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lawheelock
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Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 774
 

@charlesgruby

Thanks, Chuck,

Yes, I remember you and Marcia working hard to put that fly in on.

I was able to download that rigging .pdf so I have it now.  I am sure I already have it somewhere, but I have so much Stinson invormation that I have collected over the past 52 years that I don't know where a lot of it is plus having stuff in two locations 1300 miles apart does not help.

On your question about muffler flame tubes, I have not heard of one on a Stinson causing significant power loss but I am sure it is possible.  At least, on a Stinson it is less likely to cause a major power loss or engine failure as opposed to the Pipers and the AD for them since Stinsons have dual exhausts and mufflers as opposed to Piper's single outlet exhaust system on most of them.

Larry Wheelock, A&P/IAStinson 108 N584LW 180 LycTexas in Winter; Indiana in Summer


   
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Charles L Gruby Gruby
(@charlesgruby)
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@lawheelockThanks for the response. i5 years as a member, wow that's a long time. Good to see all you experts hanging in therewhen needed. I wonder what it would take to get some of my past years as a member reinstated? I even remember George Hienly.  

Chuck Gruby
Stinson 108-2 NC9502K
Petal, MS


   
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lawheelock
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Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 774
 
Posted by: @charlesgruby

@lawheelockThanks for the response. i5 years as a member, wow that's a long time. Good to see all you experts hanging in therewhen needed. I wonder what it would take to get some of my past years as a member reinstated? I even remember George Hienly.  

Chuck, I actually became a member of the Stinson club (that has morphed into this ISC)  in about 1978, about 42 years ago when the Hoovers were running the club and we had an annual fly-in in Minden, Nebraska. I think I have been a member of whatever it was or is continuously.   I met George Hienly at Minden one year.  I am now about as deaf as he was then.   There were some folks at the San Antonio Fly-in that also had attended the Minden Fly-ins including Don Maxfield, former owner of Li'l Red Arrow in Kearney, NB.  That was the last time I saw Don but did do some business with him later.  I understand he has passed on now.  John Underwood was there too, the Author of one of the Stinson Books and I don't recall if it was him or another person that brought and exhibited a Tucker Automobile engine, an adaption of our Franklins.  I think Tucker actually owned Franklin for a while until his backruptcy and then it was sold off and I think then is when it became the Franklin Engine Company instead of the old name Air Cooled Motors.

 

Larry

 

 

 

Larry Wheelock, A&P/IAStinson 108 N584LW 180 LycTexas in Winter; Indiana in Summer


   
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